International Ornithological Association
Founder Member COM-UK

Affiliated to the Confederation Ornithologique Mondiale

CSUG Meeting Minutes – Wednesday 19th April 2017

CITES Sustainable Users Group (CSUG) Meeting

11am-1pm, 19 April 2017, Horizon House Bristol



Lydia Andrews (APHA)

Drew Bain (Guild of Taxidermists)

Mark Baxter (Defra)

Peter Beare (Beare Violins)

Elizabeth Biott (Defra)

Jim Collins (SUN)

Martyn Denney (Cyclamen Society)

Mark Dodgson (BADA)

Keith Fletcher (Vertu)

Matthew Ford (Specialist Wildlife Services)

Mike Gates (Owl Society)

Simon Hewitt (APHA)

David Huke (Border Force ) – joining by phone

Graham Irving (Hawk Board)

Elaine Kendall (Defra)

Tracey King (OATA) – joining by phone

Philip Knowles (JCS Livestock)

Alison Littlewood / Nichola Burnett (JNCC) – joining by phone

Jenny Lomas (Association of British Orchestras)

Kim McDonald (Guild of Taxidermists)

Paul McManus (Music Industries Association)

Barbara Minnikin (APHA)

Henriette Okafor Wright (Burberry)

Grace Readings (Defra) – joining by phone

Alan Robinson (IOA)

Martin Sims (NWCU)

Noeleen Smyth (RBG Kew)

Dominic Whitmee (OATA)


Laurence Jessup (Border Force)

Stacey Hughes (Defra)

Grant Miller (Border Force)

Jemima Parry-Jones (International Centre for Birds of Prey)

Martin Jones (Falconry Online)

Nicky Needham (BIAZA)

Chris Newman (REPTA)

Agree minutes of meeting on 12 January 2017 and action point update:

2. The minutes of the last meeting were agreed. The majority of action points had been completed. Updates provided were as follows:

Action point 1:  APHA Permissions and Compliance team have had useful meeting with traders.  Next stage will involve looking at existing systems which may be adapted for CITES use, to be followed by testing.  Kim McDonald (KM) expressed an interest in taking part in testing phase

Action point 4:  Estimated provided – 1500 African grey parrots needing to be rehomed in the UK, or being held in sanctuaries/rescue centres
Jim Collins (JC) Lycodactylus williamsi – this species was exported from Tanzania as Lycodactylus spp. and is being traded in the EU and exported from Germany with permits.
Alison Littlewood (AL) no permits or certificates have been applied for to date for L.williamsi – cases will be evaluated when received.

Action point 6:  Ivory consultation not yet launched, may be held up by General Election in June.

3.Corporate update – Staff changes:

Elaine Kendall, based in Bristol, has taken over from Michael Sigsworth
Elizabeth Biott Illegal Wildlife Trade team, based in Bristol
Will  Pryer Illegal Wildlife team based in London
Stephen Coulter International Strategy team based in London
Five new CITES case-officer posts advertised due to increased case workload

4. EU and International meetings – review and forward look:

a)    Scientific Review Group (SRG78), 6 Feb 2017 link to summary note

b)    77th Management Committee / 6th Expert Group, 7 Feb 2017 link to summary note

c)    EU Illegal Wildlife Trade event, 8 Feb 2017  Dominic Whitmee (DW) and Chris Newman (CN) attended this and found it useful as initial meeting, but further meetings required for discussion with traders.  There was concern about the tone of statements from CITES Secretariat – perceived as a threatening message to legal trade.  DW asked for IWT discussion nationally (before EU-exit).

Action point 1: Elaine Kendall and Mark Baxter will go back to the Commission with these comments and progress more constructive meeting with trade representatives regarding IWT.

d)    SRG79 on 21 June, Management Committee (Noeleen Smyth attending)7th Experts Group on 22 June (Elaine Kendall attending). [No details available yet.]

e)    29th Animals Committee on 18-21 July 2017; 23rd Plants Committee on 22, 24-27 July 2017 documents not yet published, decisions from CoP17 to be discussed

5. Updates:
(a)  Law Commission’s review of wildlife law;  Nothing further to report since last meeting.  Though EU-exit will provide an opportunity to look again at all legislation, there will be no immediate change, therefore this item will be removed from the agenda for future meetings for the time being.

(b)  APHA BIP charging;  Simon Hewitt advised that the position has not changed and is still being discussed by Ministers.  Any developments may be put back by EU-exit and the forthcoming election.  Dominic Whitmee (DW) requested information on figures used to calculate fees for “our of hours” inspections

Action point 2: Barbara Minnikin to get a response from the charging team.

(c) EU Commission guidance on worked specimens; The guidance is due to be published mid-May, and it is not expected that this will be delayed by the Ivory consultation exercise.

(d)  EU-exit and implications for the EU Wildlife Trade Regulations;  Elaine Kendall outlined  – our understanding that the Great Repeal Bill will transfer EU legislation into UK legislation with any necessary word changes only.  7 pieces of legislation in CITES and COTES to be transferred to Statutory Instrument.  We are not envisaging any reduction in protection for endangered species, but don’t know at this stage what changes may be made.  DW suggested that this would be a good opportunity to review the requirements for internal trade certificates and import/export permits with a view to removing some of the requirements, in order to make trade easier for business.

(e)  COTES, including Ports of Entry.  Discussed earlier.  The requirement for restricted ports of entry for live CITES specimens is within EU legislation. Post EU-exit this could be reviewed and other ports approved – though Border Inspection Posts (BIP) will be required.  It has been noted that current restrictions may lead to welfare issues with live animals due to long journeys to the designated ports.

Action point 3: Elaine and Graham Irving to discuss

6. Implementation issues:

a)    and b)The need for all EU Annex A specimens being kept by a taxidermist business, whether mounted or unworked, to have a valid Art 10 certificate was discussed.  This requirement resulted from a previous legal case which confirmed that unmounted specimens kept by a taxidermist business were being “kept for sale” and therefore required A10 certificates.  A Transaction Specific Certificate is only valid for the holder at the address on the certificate.  Kim McDonald (KM) suggested that taxidermists be encouraged to implant microchips in the skull of the specimen, which would enable Specimen Specific Certificates to be issued for taxidermy.  Could existing licensing with Natural England be extended to include keeping unmounted taxidermy specimens without the requirement for A10 certificates?

There may also be requirements in Animal By-products  Legislation which apply to dead specimens for taxidermy.

Action point 4: Barbara Minnikin to review how A10 certificates are issued for taxidermy in UK and other member states (Denmark for example), and discuss this further with JNCC.

7. AOB

a)    Electric blue Gecko L williamsi – already discussed above.

a)    Peter Beare questioned whether Annotation #5 could be applied to the new listings of rosewood and ebony, in order to allow trade in finished goods without CITES permits.  Noeleen Smyth mentioned that there is an Annotation Working Group which welcomes contributions to their discussions, but the Annotation already applied was agreed at CoP, and is therefore a globally agreed decision.

a)    Mark Dodgson outlined the difficulties trade was experiencing when trying to identify which specimens required permits as there are so many common names for timber used.  For example Kingwood and Tulipwood are not regarded as rosewood by antiques trade, but are actually species of Dalbergia.  Noeleen Smyth reiterated the importance of using the scientific (Latin) species name when searching for information on CITES listings.

Next meeting:

Provisional date to be confirmed.  Possible venue 2 Rivergate, Temple Quay, Bristol BS1 6ED.

Action point 5: CSUG members invited to submit agenda items for this meeting to

There was no break-out session after this meeting, but the post EU-exit implications were discussed briefly.

(i)             UK voting in CITES and relationship with the EU; implications for the free movement of CITES specimens between the UK and EU Member States including the issuance of CITES paperwork to facilitate trade;

(ii)           Implications for the Habitats Directive as it relates to UK obligations;

(iii)          Implications for the 5 Bird Rule as currently implemented in the EU;

(iv)                    Likelihood of quarantine requirement changes;

(v)                      Implications for Pet Passport arrangements;

All of the above are part of EU legislation, and there will therefore be an opportunity to review all requirements after EU-exit.   Simon Hewitt stated that APHA is already looking at Export Health requirements in terms of commodity types and volumes of trade.  He advised that there will be a requirement for certification, but it is not yet known what form this will take.

Mark Baxter confirmed that post EU-exit the UK will have an independent position at the CITES CoP, though it is likely that UK position on proposals will be similar to that of EU in many cases.

Action point 6: Elaine Kendall invited comments from trade representatives regarding what they would like to see changed, reviewed or implemented post EU-exit. Please send any initial comments to EK

Date of next meeting: Thursday 3rd August, Horizon House, Bristol